Comments on: Point system in kendo

By: George McCall

George McCall — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:46:52 +0000

A short series “dead and dying waza” will come out soon enough.. we have a backlog of stuff waiting to be released. If we released everything at once that would be no fun!!!

By: blackknight

blackknight — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:36:14 +0000

George-

I would LOVE to read your translation of that article. Yes, please!

-Brian S.

By: George McCall

George McCall — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:03:03 +0000

Inter ryu competitions it seems were very common at the time. Especially in Sakakibara Kenkichi’s gekiken shows.

I have seen kendo vs sojutsu but it is very rare.

Edit: in fact, I am translating a short article as we speak that tells you how to fight against spear…

By: blackknight

blackknight — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:56:41 +0000

I think this scoring system is quite interesting. First, it has the potential to reflect what (dare I say it?) might be called a more “realistic” approach to kendo, i.e. recognition of the fact that kendoists wield a sword and, like horseshoes and hand grenades, close does count for something when it comes to sword cuts. Also, the addition of the men-dare to target areas is something that would elimnate the silly “head dodging” and make kendoists recognize that, by offering your neck to a cut rather than your head, you are still dying. My wife’s uncle is a battto-do sensei in Japan, and he opined the neck cut is the “ichiban” target for a sword. I often think of that when I witness (and sadly sometimes peform) “head dodging” in kendo.

Also, I am fascinated by the “shiai” illustration. Unless I am mistaken, there are a number of spearmen in it? Amazing to see how the spear has almost disappeared in just over a century. Do illustrations like this one indicate that isshu-jiai (mixed practice) between different weapon arts was common at one time?

By: Richard Stonell

Richard Stonell — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:09:37 +0000

Kent and George: I think the original interpretation of 掠め撃 is pretty accurate. “A grazing blow” describes it well – not a solid ippon, but something that vaguely connects. 掠めて with regards to an attack suggests to me something that makes light contact or just misses.

I did a quick search for 兵字小手 and came up with a piece stating quite clearly 「上段からの小手」, so I think that is fairly clear.

By: George McCall

George McCall — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:54:23 +0000

Kent, was hoping you would comment.

‘heiji kote’ – do a web search for that article by Nagao and let me hear what you think. What you say is possible, but I am not sure.

掠め撃 -> hmm, probably. Will probably change it to your suggestion.

Mendare -> Of-course we all know what “mendare” are, but its hard to know exactly what part they are referring to here. It could just be from the neck up the side of the men (which is what I would guess at) and not the flap parts of the mendare that cascade to the side. Again, I am not sure.

Despite possible (probable!) inaccuracies in the translation, I still think this small piece serves to introduce the idea that point systems were actually designed and perhaps even used back in the day.

Cheers for the input!!

By: Kent Enfield

Kent Enfield — Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:34:53 +0000

Very interesting.

Obviously, I haven’t read the passages that give context to heiji kote, but I’d think that such a huge difference in score between it and seigan kote would make more sense if it were the kamae of the person struck rather than that of the striker.

Also, could “kasume uchi” be taken as “striking given the chance” instead of “glancing blow”?

Mendare is what I’ve always heard the flaps on the men called.

By: George McCall

George McCall — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:55:18 +0000

Ben, cheers.

First, i’m not sure if the character combination is read “heiji” or not, thats simply a guess. Second, I have no idea the popularity or non-popularity of multiple scoring methods…. but they definitely did exist. Third, I am not sure exactly as to what “men tare” applies to… I would have to do deeper research into it (see the article on research posted earlier this week), And finally fourth — the wealth of information available in Japanese about kendo is staggering… and the vast majority isn’t available in English. What you get with this blog is often tailored to the individuals likes and dislikes.

At any rate it is – as you said – fascinating… hence the quick translation. More to come soon!!!

By: Ben Sheppard

Ben Sheppard — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:14:06 +0000

Fascinating info George. This is a good example of the purpose of this blog.

My sensei said that during the war the matches he participated in were usually ippon shobu. It’s great to find out not only that different systems might have been used, but also get an understanding of how different cuts were valued comparitively. And not only that but cuts that no longer score at all, e.g. “men tare” is that a cut that lands on the shoulder…? Also, had never heard the term “heiji” before. Really good stuff! b

By: George McCall

George McCall — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 10:05:37 +0000

Shinpanning is hard enough as it is!